Comments on: Jimmy Carter Leaves the SBC http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/ AND I'LL GET OUT Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:58:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: PUT ME IN A BOX » Blog Archive » Dating Jesus http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-75 PUT ME IN A BOX » Blog Archive » Dating Jesus Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:17:12 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-75 [...] Still, whether church of Christ or Baptist or Assembly of God, like Campbell, I immersed myself fully in church–teaching Vacation Bible School, knocking on doors (though like her also rather reluctantly), etc.  I had a few more opportunities once we moved on to other churches.  In the christian church I was a key leader in my youth group and sang and spoke in front of the church.  In the Baptist church I sang and spoke in front of many churches on revival teams with the Baptist Student Union or during “summer missions”.  Still, we learned that there was a limit–we couldn’t be ministers–we could only “testify” at the pulpit and not “preach”.  (This is not true of every Baptist church–there are female Baptist ministers, but it’s not nationally embraced by the Southern Baptist Convention — see our previous post about Jimmy Carter.) [...] [...] Still, whether church of Christ or Baptist or Assembly of God, like Campbell, I immersed myself fully in church–teaching Vacation Bible School, knocking on doors (though like her also rather reluctantly), etc.  I had a few more opportunities once we moved on to other churches.  In the christian church I was a key leader in my youth group and sang and spoke in front of the church.  In the Baptist church I sang and spoke in front of many churches on revival teams with the Baptist Student Union or during “summer missions”.  Still, we learned that there was a limit–we couldn’t be ministers–we could only “testify” at the pulpit and not “preach”.  (This is not true of every Baptist church–there are female Baptist ministers, but it’s not nationally embraced by the Southern Baptist Convention — see our previous post about Jimmy Carter.) [...]

]]> By: Anne http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-59 Anne Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:58:37 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-59 I recently read Carter's book Keeping Faith. I recommend it. I learned a lot about him. I was raised to think he was a good man, but misguided. My mom kept it a secret for about twenty years that she voted for him BOTH times. I remember my dad kept on saying BOTH times? I recently read Carter’s book Keeping Faith. I recommend it. I learned a lot about him. I was raised to think he was a good man, but misguided. My mom kept it a secret for about twenty years that she voted for him BOTH times. I remember my dad kept on saying BOTH times?

]]> By: Judith http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-56 Judith Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:36:00 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-56 P.S. Inspired by President Carter, I wrote to the SBC church I joined in college (you girls know which one I'm talking about) and asked them to formally purge my name from their records if they hadn't done so already. P.S. Inspired by President Carter, I wrote to the SBC church I joined in college (you girls know which one I’m talking about) and asked them to formally purge my name from their records if they hadn’t done so already.

]]> By: Judith http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-55 Judith Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:33:42 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-55 This is an important subject to me and I'm sure its themes are bound to come up in subsequent posts. When I was in first grade I "voted" for Jimmy Carter in our Weekly Reader. I remember waking up the morning after the election and my mother telling me, "your friend didn't win." I'm not sure why she said friend, maybe something in the way I described my reasons for voting? As it turns out, he is my friend. He stands in solidarity with women of all races and religions who have been told "no" as a result of patriarchally influenced religious writings and the primarily male-dominated interpretation of those writings. In the documentary about his life--Jimmy Carter, Man from Plains--President Carter's early encounters with racial in/equality and his ongoing religious commitment are prominent. His commitment to his principles and his courageousness in voicing them are inspiring to me. His break with the SBC is their loss. In 2000, I withdrew from an SBC seminary after they voted to revise the Baptist Faith and Message to reflect their increasingly restrictive and legalistic interpretations on women's roles. I wrote to the President of the Seminary that I could not in good conscience continue with an entity that would offer me an education based on my academic ability and a job based on my gender. I never heard back. I am going to save my comments about leaving/working from within the church for a future post. It is a big topic for me that needs its own space. This is an important subject to me and I’m sure its themes are bound to come up in subsequent posts. When I was in first grade I “voted” for Jimmy Carter in our Weekly Reader. I remember waking up the morning after the election and my mother telling me, “your friend didn’t win.” I’m not sure why she said friend, maybe something in the way I described my reasons for voting? As it turns out, he is my friend. He stands in solidarity with women of all races and religions who have been told “no” as a result of patriarchally influenced religious writings and the primarily male-dominated interpretation of those writings. In the documentary about his life–Jimmy Carter, Man from Plains–President Carter’s early encounters with racial in/equality and his ongoing religious commitment are prominent. His commitment to his principles and his courageousness in voicing them are inspiring to me. His break with the SBC is their loss. In 2000, I withdrew from an SBC seminary after they voted to revise the Baptist Faith and Message to reflect their increasingly restrictive and legalistic interpretations on women’s roles. I wrote to the President of the Seminary that I could not in good conscience continue with an entity that would offer me an education based on my academic ability and a job based on my gender. I never heard back. I am going to save my comments about leaving/working from within the church for a future post. It is a big topic for me that needs its own space.

]]> By: DVD http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-54 DVD Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:40:00 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-54 This is my first visit to your website and it looks interesting! Answering the question of "leave or try to change from within?" is always subject to the particular issue, I would say. For example, I would not stay in any organization (secular or religious) with a racist attitude or practice. In my opinion, issues of gender equality are on par with racial equality. So if I wouldn't stay in an organization that refused to elect an African-American president or pastor, I also wouldn't stay in one that refused to elect women. Equality is that important. I can't know Carter's particular motivation, but I see in his statement a valid motivation for his "sudden" change. The interesting question to me is "why now, given the misogynistic history of his denomination?" Carter is part of a group called The Elders (theelders.org if you're interested). He mentions in his statement, and the website confirms, that the group is starting a new initiative of equality for women and girls. Given this new emphasis, it would make sense that Carter would reevaluate his own associations and remove any potential distractions from the message and make a personal gesture of the importance of the issue. In another important stroke, the move signals that all issues of gender equality are equally important. Carter doesn't pull punches on Islam's treatment of women (as it is practiced in most areas of the world) and it would be easy to say "at least the baptists don't do anything as bad as THEY do!" Instead, Carter's message seems to be that wrong is wrong, whether it's barbaric adultery laws or exclusion from leadership positions. A principled position to take. Just my two cents. Thanks for the venue! This is my first visit to your website and it looks interesting! Answering the question of “leave or try to change from within?” is always subject to the particular issue, I would say. For example, I would not stay in any organization (secular or religious) with a racist attitude or practice. In my opinion, issues of gender equality are on par with racial equality. So if I wouldn’t stay in an organization that refused to elect an African-American president or pastor, I also wouldn’t stay in one that refused to elect women. Equality is that important.

I can’t know Carter’s particular motivation, but I see in his statement a valid motivation for his “sudden” change. The interesting question to me is “why now, given the misogynistic history of his denomination?” Carter is part of a group called The Elders (theelders.org if you’re interested). He mentions in his statement, and the website confirms, that the group is starting a new initiative of equality for women and girls. Given this new emphasis, it would make sense that Carter would reevaluate his own associations and remove any potential distractions from the message and make a personal gesture of the importance of the issue. In another important stroke, the move signals that all issues of gender equality are equally important. Carter doesn’t pull punches on Islam’s treatment of women (as it is practiced in most areas of the world) and it would be easy to say “at least the baptists don’t do anything as bad as THEY do!” Instead, Carter’s message seems to be that wrong is wrong, whether it’s barbaric adultery laws or exclusion from leadership positions. A principled position to take.

Just my two cents. Thanks for the venue!

]]> By: Rosemary http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-52 Rosemary Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:35:07 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-52 Beautifully said, Anne. I had the impression your church was more progressive than most. I never felt that attachment to one denomination the way you feel like a true Baptist (probably because I've been to so many churches in my lifetime). However, in the last couple years, I have really fallen in love, in a way, with the Episcopalian church and fortunately I feel very good about the way women are seen in the Episcopal Church--as a whole; there are some churches that of course are more conservative--in that sense much like the Southern Baptists. There you go--it comes down to the local church again, doesn't it? Beautifully said, Anne. I had the impression your church was more progressive than most. I never felt that attachment to one denomination the way you feel like a true Baptist (probably because I’ve been to so many churches in my lifetime). However, in the last couple years, I have really fallen in love, in a way, with the Episcopalian church and fortunately I feel very good about the way women are seen in the Episcopal Church–as a whole; there are some churches that of course are more conservative–in that sense much like the Southern Baptists. There you go–it comes down to the local church again, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Anne http://putmeinabox.com/2009/07/jimmy-carter-leaves-the-sbc/comment-page-1/#comment-51 Anne Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:18:04 +0000 http://putmeinabox.com/?p=80#comment-51 My church is dually Southern Baptist and Cooperative Baptist. I asked about this when I first started attending, our pastor told me that we were sticking with SBC until they decided they didn't want us. Why they wouldn't want us? We ordain women deacons and have more female ministers on staff than male. Given this, I wonder what the statement really means by Jimmy Carter? Leave his beloved church? Perhaps his church is leaving the SBC? When I was in college, I attended a church that ordained women deacons and was removed from the Southern Baptist Association of the county. It was big news there. Somehow, my current church has ordained women from it's beginning (20 years) without press. This issue has seemed to follow me. I support women in ministry and have since those college days. I don't argue with those who feel God's calling. I believe God calls people beyond consideration to gender. In my heart, I am a Baptist. I feel I am a true Baptists who loves the local church. I don't want to be regulated by whatever belief is in fashion in the SBC. Leadership changes and power struggles within the SBC are commonplace. Sadly, in my opinion this recent leadership wants to take away the local church's right to do what is best for them. I firmly believe that what works for one church won't be a perfect fit for another. What works for my Baptist church is women in ministry. We have ordained women in many aspects of the church. It works for us. My church is dually Southern Baptist and Cooperative Baptist. I asked about this when I first started attending, our pastor told me that we were sticking with SBC until they decided they didn’t want us. Why they wouldn’t want us? We ordain women deacons and have more female ministers on staff than male. Given this, I wonder what the statement really means by Jimmy Carter? Leave his beloved church? Perhaps his church is leaving the SBC?

When I was in college, I attended a church that ordained women deacons and was removed from the Southern Baptist Association of the county. It was big news there. Somehow, my current church has ordained women from it’s beginning (20 years) without press. This issue has seemed to follow me. I support women in ministry and have since those college days. I don’t argue with those who feel God’s calling. I believe God calls people beyond consideration to gender.

In my heart, I am a Baptist. I feel I am a true Baptists who loves the local church. I don’t want to be regulated by whatever belief is in fashion in the SBC. Leadership changes and power struggles within the SBC are commonplace. Sadly, in my opinion this recent leadership wants to take away the local church’s right to do what is best for them. I firmly believe that what works for one church won’t be a perfect fit for another. What works for my Baptist church is women in ministry. We have ordained women in many aspects of the church. It works for us.

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